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土豪乐潭 We the Landlords • 查看主题 - 关于商业地产

关于商业地产

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版主: 小心翼翼的小地主, jy101, 瞎问瞎说

关于商业地产

帖子texastrader » 2014-05-22 0:14

关于商业地产,有些童鞋有些误会,我就随便讲讲我的看法。

首先,我们目前所经营的,都是商业地产,apartment complext,只要是超过四个单位的,都是商业地产。storage,trailer park也都是商业地产。为什么用来居住的apartment不是residential,而是commercial呢?这是从经济效应上来划分的。apartment和shopping center,office,wearhouse等等都有商业地产的共同点,那就是其价值主要是由其商业利益决定的。说直观点,就是产生cash flow的能力。产生cash flow的能力越大,价值越高。从owner的角度来说,如果一个apartment和一个shopping center,长期有着同样的cash flow,那么它们的价值大致相当。对于owner没有太大区别。作为residential的SFH,虽然也可以用来出租产生cash flow,但和这些商业地产有区别。因为SFH的价值,虽然和产生cash flow的能力有一定联系,但不是主要决定因素。

最近投坛上有些人片面鼓吹商业地产的好处,其实都没有说到点子上,所以引起很多投资人的反感。比如说商业地产容易管理。这个完全是不知所云。从投资回报的好坏来看,如果要比较商业地产和SFH,投资人应该在假设请PM管理的情况下再做比较。如果自己管理,那么其实你赚了两份钱:投资回报和作为PM的劳务费。混在一起怎么比较呢?另外,商业地产一般价值高,作为agent,做一笔就容易赚到大钱,比做N个SFH赚多了。所以有些agent喜欢纠集一帮投资人来买商业地产。自己不出钱,光收commission,这是只赚不赔的无本生意。如果投资人能赚到钱,大家皆大欢喜。那么关键在哪里呢?关键就在于agent有没有这个商业地产的价值判断能力?很多商业地产的agent专做商业地产,residential的agent专做residential,为什么?因为术业有专攻,两边通吃有难度。当然不排除有些能力特别强的,两边都能游刃有余。一般来说,如果agent自信自己的商业地产的眼光,但是又没有相应的经历来证明自己,最好的办法就是和投资人一起投资。比如说,如果一个agent说我纠集10个人,每人出20万,总共200万买一个商业楼。虽然现在是空的,但是我有本事把它租出去,以后大家都赚钱。你作为一个投资人,觉得跃跃欲试,可是又有点犹豫,怎么办呢?我建议你,告诉这个agent,你自己至少投一股,我就跟你投。如果最后砸手里了,agent也赔钱。这种情况下,agent就会好好掂量掂量,这个烫手山芋我到底能不能handle?如果agent自己不投钱,到时候两手一摊,说这个市场不好,我也没办法。反正他已经赚到了,这个地产是死是活,和他其实已经没有关系了。

有些人觉得因为internet的出现,online shopping和telecommunication成为可能,现在shopping center,office,wearhouse 都只会走下坡路了,所以除了apartment,其他商业地产都不能投资。这个说法其实有点片面和夸大其词了。事实上,经济有cycle,地产有cycle,商业地产也有cycle。你回头看以前的cycle好像很简单,但是当时你怎么没有抓住顶和底,狠狠的赚一笔?这是因为每一个cycle都不是无缘无故的,都是有理由的。比如说,2000年的时候,dotcom的股票一飞冲天,也许你觉得有点over value了,但你能想到短短半年一年之后,这些股票会从几百跌到几分钱甚至消失?原因何在?就是因为当时很多人都说,经济已经发生变化,internet的出现使经济秩序重新洗牌,所以warren buffet过时了,以后就是dot com的时代。这种似是而非的理论有很大的迷惑性。所以很多人以为当时很多internet股票的valuation有一定的合理性。08,09年经济危机也是一样,股市跌的那么惨,为什么很多人不冲进去捡便宜?因为市场很恐怖,很多人觉得这个世界要完蛋了,欧洲国家都破产了,美国也债台高筑,日本一蹶不振,中国全是泡沫要崩溃。但是事实如何呢?世界既没有一飞冲天,也没有一蹶不振,cycle一个接着一个。商业地产也是这样。online shopping固然对shopping center有影响,所以现在很多shopping center卖的很便宜。现在也确实有些人work from home,所以现在不少office building有些空置。但是不是shopping center都一定死定了呢?以后若干年后就没有商店了,以后公司也不用租office了,大家全部不出门,在家shopping,在家工作,这个世界只剩住宅,街道上只有UPS的卡车穿梭送货?如果你真这么想,那么我说,你要退后一步看看更长的人类发展史。随着人类文明的进步,商业是怎么发展的。online shopping的比例,不可能从零一路上升到100%,到一定的程度就会饱和,平衡。Work from Home就更不用说了,现在已经有很多公司回归传统,要求员工来公司上班。原因很简单,商业行为是需要交流的,面对面的沟通永远都是交流的一个重要渠道,无论是顾客和销售之间,还是公司的同僚之间。同样的故事,也在旅馆行业上演。以前有一阵旅馆都不景气,说是新经济之下,大家都teleconference就可以解决问题,哪里还需要出差?经济不好的时候,公司是会裁剪商务旅行的预算,所以旅馆生意不好。但是后来经济反弹以后,旅馆又活过来了。事实上,在一轮又一轮的经济cycle之下,经济行为越来越繁荣发达,商业地产也不断的成长壮大。

对于我们个人来说,进入商业地产要谨慎。因为绝大多数的个人资本不够雄厚,如果没有看准时机,可能挺不过cycle的折磨。但是对于有眼光,有能力的人来说,商业地产里面蕴藏着很多发财的机会。不能因为自己不懂,就一概否定,这不是智者的选择。做商业地产,其实和做其他任何事业一样,从大处着眼,从小处着手。战略上要有自信,要能藐视敌人,挑战自己。但战术上一定要重视敌人,知己知彼,该做的research一定要做。出手之前要知道自己的edge在哪里?风险在哪里?人家搞不好,我接盘之后如何能够搞好?如果我也搞不好,又会怎样?

机会永远都是留给有准备的人的。
texastrader
 
帖子: 136
注册: 2014-04-16 20:07

Re: 关于商业地产

帖子SunshineInCA » 2014-05-22 0:22

因噎废食是不值得的。

well say。
SunshineInCA
 
帖子: 580
注册: 2014-05-01 10:41

Re: 关于商业地产

帖子monkeyboy » 2014-05-22 1:48

TT说的非常好,我还要补充一点。

如果是shopping center 或者是 office building,when we look at it, we look at quality of the tenants, we look at the quality of tenants business.

There are business that are not likely to go away, and hardly can be replaced by online retailers.

比如the shopping center JY mentioned as 1 of our 4 target properties 有一个tenant 是cici's pizza,do you serously think cici's pizza will be replaced by etailers?

There is shopping center we reviewed in Feb this year and we liked the location, property condition and tenant base, but we decided to table it because we did not believe we were able to raise $6m. A major grocery chain just renewed lease for another 10 years. It is an anchor store.

You have got to understand and review tenant base, not blindly say CRE is very dangerous and should be avoided in any chance.
monkeyboy
 
帖子: 119
注册: 2014-04-16 21:07

ddd!!! very nice...

帖子jy101 » 2014-05-22 2:11

well said...
jy101
 
帖子: 640
注册: 2014-04-16 21:57

Re: 关于商业地产

帖子DCinvestor » 2014-05-22 7:17

谢兄写得很好!
DCinvestor
 
帖子: 5
注册: 2014-05-01 9:13

TT写得不错

帖子小心翼翼的小地主 » 2014-05-22 7:27

学习了,谢谢。 @onion5@
小心翼翼的小地主
小心翼翼的小地主
 
帖子: 600
注册: 2014-04-16 19:15

说的好,鼓掌!

帖子If_sky_cry » 2014-05-22 10:30

学习了,多谢!
If_sky_cry
 
帖子: 16
注册: 2014-05-02 23:17

顶!!! 很高水平的文章!

帖子梁山 » 2014-05-22 10:32

基本上都同意TT的分析!

@onion25@ @onion25@ @onion25@ @onion25@ @onion25@
梁山
 
帖子: 106
注册: 2014-05-07 23:19

Co: 顶!!! 很高水平的文章!

帖子瞎问瞎说 » 2014-05-22 11:04

瞎问瞎说
 
帖子: 84
注册: 2014-04-22 8:32

大鼎!

帖子美西游子 » 2014-05-22 11:06

谢分享!
美西游子
 
帖子: 77
注册: 2014-05-07 3:58

Re: 关于商业地产

帖子b52 » 2014-05-22 11:22

thanks for sharing.
头像
b52
 
帖子: 31
注册: 2014-04-21 15:19

Re: 关于商业地产

帖子Caterpillar123 » 2014-05-22 14:07

Insightful...
"cycle一个接着一个", 有时候一个cycle就是一辈子啊。sigh, 每次“退后一步看看更长的人类发展史”,就会觉得自己很渺小。 @onion4@ @onion31@ @onion11@ @onion33@
Caterpillar123
 
帖子: 80
注册: 2014-04-16 21:33


Re: 关于商业地产

帖子比花花还花 » 2014-05-22 22:10

just do it!
头像
比花花还花
 
帖子: 583
注册: 2014-04-16 17:37
地址: Tucson

Re: 关于商业地产

帖子Caterpillar123 » 2014-05-23 8:26

Caterpillar123
 
帖子: 80
注册: 2014-04-16 21:33


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